If Black Gays Are Still On the DL It's Probably the Black Community's Fault (Unconventional Wisdom) (Guest Post)
Tuesday, June 9, 2009 at 9:56AM
By Ebonie
Writer’s Note: This article is not an argument about whether homosexuality is right or wrong. Or an excuse for DL brothers who date women. And I don’t understand DL guys who really don’t believe they’re gay. AT ALL.
But moving on …
One afternoon last year, a coworker started a conversation with me about her sister’s former marriage. We weren’t really friends – I’d only known her for a few days, but she was one of those talkers who would tell you her entire life story before you even know her last name.
“My sister was married to this guy … I knew something was off about him, and our mama warned her before she married him that he was gay. She’s good at noticing that stuff. But she just got mad at our mama and married him anyway.
So years go by and I see the signs – I know he’s gay. My sister’s the only one who didn’t know or didn’t want to know. Then she finally finds out he was cheating on her. And with a man! But our mama told her! She had so many signs. But she just wanted to be married.”
More after the jump.
She continued talking about her sister, and then we moved to the topic of down low brothers in general. “Many of my male friends are gay,” I told her, “And I’m sure even if I couldn’t see it, somebody would let me know before I got into that type of situation.”
“That would never happen to me,” she said (referring to her sister). “Because I’m just like my mama, we have the gift. I can feel that demon spirit.”
Wait – what? I have no idea what my facial expression was, but in my mind, I was like, “Did she just say she could tell if guys were gay because she could feel their demon spirit?” Aww lawd. Sigh.
Now, this lady was a few chips short of a Lays bag, but there are a lot of other black people who feel to some extent that gay people just need to get that devil out of them. And this has fostered an unofficial “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” culture in the black community. You can be gay, just don’t admit it. And it’s the reason a lot of DL brothers will probably never come out.
I honestly don’t understand the homophobia in the black community. We can see bigotry and inequality in race, but can’t see that gay people are people too. Gay black people shouldn’t have to pretend to be straight to be accepted.
And it’s crazy that the down low brother story is still seen as this strange enigma. “Why don’t they just admit they’re gay? Why are they pretending to be straight?”
Don’t get me started on the whole “No Homo,” phrase.
It’s the reason why the kids at the schools where Jaheem Herrera and Carl Walker Hoover attended thought it was OK to bully them for “acting gay.” Herrera went to Dunaire Elementary School, a mostly black school in Decatur, Ga., and Hoover attended New Leadership Charter School, a black school in Springfield, Mass.
The mothers of both boys brought the bullying to the school’s attention, but the administrations didn’t take it seriously enough.
It didn’t even matter if the two boys were gay or not, just the fact that they seemed gay was enough for them to be harassed every day at school. Both of them decided at age 11 that there was no way out and there was no reason to live. They had their whole lives ahead of them.
These stories didn’t come out of nowhere. Just like DL black people didn’t sprout from thin air. It’s not really about approving of homosexuality or going against your religious beliefs, but just accepting people as they are. The whole “Keep It on The Hush,” “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” culture won’t make the DL issue go away. It will only keep the practice going.
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Ebonie is the author of the blog What Looks Like Crazy.
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From The Snob: The whole DL issue is one that has always frustrated and confounded me. I know that many black gays and lesbians don't come out for fear of abandonment both emotionally, spiritually and financially by their families and friends. That black people are perfectly fine with someone in some cases who is obviously gay (pick a-many church music director or sorority sister who is "oh you know how Sharon is!"), but recoil the minute they make it verbally known what everyone already assumed. And I've witnessed the abuse of black gays and lesbians who dared to live their life out in the open at a young age, as such was the case with a young man at my high school who came out my senior year and was fond of wearing make-up and feminine clothing. I was amazed at his bravery to show up at school at all considering the teachers pretty much turned a blind eye when everyone from the football team to female students used him as a verbal and physical punching bag.
But the oddest thing is how many blacks view homosexuality as a "white male thing." The reality is black gays are in a double bind, risking being rejected by their own only to face racism and sexism from a gay community that is largely built around the needs and concerns of white men. One need only to look at the AIDS crisis as an example. When it was young, white males dying of AIDS you couldn't get activists to shut up. Now that it's largely blacks and especially black women, you hear absolutely nothing from those same coalitions.
Being intolerant is dangerous to the black community and doesn't stop anyone from being gay. And if you think being gay is a "lifestyle choice" given all the baggage that comes with it, I'm amazed by you. Being in denial that there are black gays and lesbians, being in denial about AIDS, being in denial about the abuse directed towards black homosexuals does not help the community at large. It is killing us. You don't have to agree with homosexuality, but attacking it and demonizing it isn't actually stopping anything. If your goal was to simply drive it underground and encourage risky sexual behavior among all blacks, gay and straight, mission accomplished. That's what you have. A lot of scared people, living a lie. A lot of black people not using precautions when having sex. And a lot of black people dying of AIDS.
I don't condone living a secret life, but considering the reality many face of degredation, loss and even violence, I understand. Not everyone is gay in a big city. A lot of people are gay in the rural South or the Midwest, surviving in the midst of the Bible Belt. And maybe some of you think we can spare a few tens-of-thousands or more black people to disease and abandonment. I'd argue otherwise.
Agree? Disagree? Is there a bigger problem going on here or is there no excuse for hiding who you really are? Share your comments and opinions below. And if you're so inclined, you can write the counter-argument to this post, and we'll print it here on The Black Snob. This story is part of a series on interesting, unusual, funny and unconventional takes on issues. To see the full list of issues that will be covered, click here. To read past stories, click here.
Reader Comments (64)
KUDOS to the author! Unlike many other ethnic groups who've suffered oppression, black people often fail to learn the lessons of that experience. We get marginalized and we're the first in line to marginalize others. Maybe, it's the result of some collective inferiority complex but one thing's for sure; it needs to stop.
I'm an out lesbian and I can honestly say that my life's been made much harder by brothers and sisters, not "the man". White folx typically keep their distance if they don't agree. Black folx get all in your business and then demonize you when they finally discover the tidbit of information that confirms, at least in their mind, your gayness.
Yvette
One of the problems is that homosexuality has been used as a political wedge issue by the right wing evangelical movement. The right wingers have used their money to buy-off lots of Black clergy who then spew hatred and nonsense from the pulpit about homosexuality. So a lot of the homophobia in the Black community oddly is coming from the White religious community. I'm not sure why more people don't make that connection.
As a Black lesbian I really don't subscribe to the thought that Black people are more homophobic than other groups. I've spent time around a lot of White gays and lesbians who have horror stories to tell. As Ebonie noted, it seems as though an unfavored minority, African Americans, would be less inclined to show prejudice against another unfavored minority, the LGBT community. I think that's why the media loves the Blacks hate gays more than any other group narrative.
As far as DL gay Black men; Oprah and her show with that idiot J.L. King did great harm to so many people, especially Black women. Because if people are thinking that Black women are getting AIDS and HIV at such alarming rates because of DL Black men then we have a long way to go before those infection rates begin to decline. That Oprah show set a fire in some parts of the Black community. So many Black women now believe that if their 'man' isn't on the DL then they aren't at risk for infection. The truth is most HIV and AIDS transmissions are from sex with both partners being heterosexual.
Anyway these are complicated issues. Thanks Ebonie and Snob.
"oh you know how Sharon is!" I hollered at this because this is exactly how my mom describes my lesbian cousin, but anyway...
I agree with both posts. It's a lose-lose situation for black gays and lesbians, and it's sad all the way around.
The fear of being HIV infected is probably a great concern among black women, as Monie said. Frankly, as a heterosexual, I don't understand the secrecy motive. If I were gay, I wouldn't care one fig what people would think. I've had two sisters who went from straight to gay, and one of them spent years hiding in the closet, which seemed silly to me. I have a nephew who died last year of AIDs, although he was very open about it. I believe there is a biological reason beyond homosexuality. I also give credence to a spiritual component. Since I believe in past lives, I think some people are being influenced by an earlier life when they were of a different sex. I also believe some people are perhaps influenced by a "spirit attachment" who's living through them and vicariously enjoying sex with their partners. I'll close with a quote by Shakespeare: "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio."
I just wish that people took the bullying behavior more seriously. No one has the right to bully you or your child. The schools should be sued or shut down. Period.
One last note. Our black macho culture contributes to lot of the hostility perpetuated upon the gay community. This macho myth (I call it a myth because many brothers drop the soap in prison) is also fueled by black women, who are turned off by men who seem a bit effeminate, as displayed by their taste in music and clothes. I know this from personal experience as well.
"You don't have to agree with homosexuality..." Be careful with that one Snob. It's not a choice just like being black isn't a choice.
Frankly, as a heterosexual, I don't understand the secrecy motive. If I were gay, I wouldn't care one fig what people would think.
You might if you were in danger of ostracism and physical harm. People react especially badly when they think they've been "tricked" -- that's why the ability to "pass" in all its forms really isn't all that enviable. People seriously seem to think that a man being gay or trans is a perfectly fine excuse to beat them up and kill them. Guy got off a murder rap for stabbing folks -- judge called it "gay panic." He's afraid a little tiny dude might find him attractive -- the horror! -- and so his logical response seemed to be "stab them fifty times." A similar case happened in the US -- guy threw a tiny little Hispanic man down a flight of stairs. It's nutty and insane and shouldn't be allowed. (And god forbid you should tell an aggressively interested man that you are a lesbian. They've got a thing going on in South Africa right now called "corrective rape.")
"I don’t understand DL guys who really don’t believe they’re gay. AT ALL."
Let me see if I can break this down for you. Some men who have sex with other men are gay and afraid to come out. Other see that part of them as a fetish; something they just do, without emotion. And we know, good and well, a lot of men are experts at separating sex and emotion.
Gay, at this point in time, is more than just a sexual orientation. Gay is a movement and a culture. Gay is also seen as/associated with effeminate, drag queen, S&M, leather, house music, tight clothes, degeneracy and a bunch of other stereotypes.
If said man is living within the construct of straight culture, does not subscribe to any of the aforementioned cultural misnomers and does not have emotional connections with men, he can very well claim that he is not "gay." However, if you were to ask this man if he engages in homosexual behavior, given you could get this man in an anonymous, truthful moment, most likely he would not deny. Socially, he is "straight."
Gay is a very loaded word, even to some in the gay community. And as the LGBT movement continues to press for equal rights, that word becomes even dirtier to the more discreet homosexual. Many have taken on the newest acronym, SGL or same-gender loving, ridding the label of the "filth" gay brings to some minds.
People should feel free to live their lives the way they choose. I agree that demonizing homosexuality pushes it further into the closet, having said that - it is also unforgiveable to get married KNOWING you are gay. You may feel afraid or ashamed to be open about it but that gives you no right to lie and deceive another person or knowingly sleep with others if you have a sexually transmitted disease, including AIDS.
@Adeshola -- I wish they took it more the bullying more seriously too. The adults at the schools knew what was going on before those two boys ended their lives.
@ ezparz -- A lot of people who aren't tolerant to the gay community use the reason that they don't want to go against their religious beliefs or in essence, "agree with or support homosexuality."
@Mac -- I read a piece on how gays are treated in Jamaica and couldn't even fathom how it must be for gays down there to hide their sexuality for fear of being harmed. I hadn't heard about what was going on in South Africa until I read your link.
@ Black Snob: Lol at
"oh you know how Sharon is!" That's what's crazy to me. That people can be obviously gay in the black community, but it's not an issue until they actually admit it.
@TheLoveHater: Hmm. I'd never heard about people taking on the new SGL acronym.
One need only to look at the AIDS crisis as an example. When it was young, white males dying of AIDS you couldn't get activists to shut up. Now that it's largely blacks and especially black women, you hear absolutely nothing from those same coalitions.
I actually disagree, I still see them helping general AIDS activism in my city. The problem is when are black folks in the gay community gonna step up. Silence = DEATH remember? With the exception of a few outspoken black activists many are silent. You really don't white activists to be the face of the movement, then black folks will really reject it.
@Yvette in DC, I appreciate your struggle and realize how painful it must be but perhaps the increased hostility you receive from some black people is partly due to black people feeling proprietary over other black people so they are more likely to comment to you or harrass you than a white person would but those same people might ignore gay white men or lesbians because they aren't "familly" so they don't care. Probably the same reason why you have experienced less discrimination from whites on that front. Or maybe not. I'm no expert and don't want to undermine your justified pain or to try to say how they treated you was ok. But I have issue with this statement "Unlike many other ethnic groups who've suffered oppression, black people often fail to learn the lessons of that experience." I think that is fundamentally untrue. The Americans of European descent in this country had ancestors who most often came here because they were oppressed and they got here and they oppressed the Native People, and blacks who they brought in to be slaves. Modern day Ashkenazi Jews who founded modern-day Israel did so because they were horribly persecuted and nearly killed off in Europe, and today they and their children oppress the Palestinians. I could go on and on with examples. Don't hold us to a higher standard than others and I've often seen black people more than willing to take care of people outside of our group. We aren't perfect but please don't paint us with such a broad brush
Well, unfortunately dating a guy on the DL seemed to have been a rite of passage in my circle of friends. ALL of my girlfriends have dated a DL dude at one time or another, including me and my sister. Thank god my experience happened early in life, but a goo friend of mine had to get tested for HIV when her boyfriend of a year developed symptoms ( he spent time in jail). Two of my dearest gay friends died from HIV, they both had partners who were also on the DL. I often thought how these men could go and have sex with their girlfriends in good conscience after they had sex with my infected friends. I'm purposely gun-shy now because of the experiences of my friends.
I wish we as black people could just accept gay folk as part of who we are as a people, because it ain't going away.
Sistas really need to demand testing, especially those who want to play captain save with dudes from jail.
I meant Captain Save a Thug, with dudes from jail
@YvetteDC, I don't think it's that we haven't learned the lessons form our oppression, but that we started to identify with our oppressors. In Africa, we were indoctrinated with Islam, in America, Christianity. We still carry many of the beliefs and biases of our oppressors and use them to say "well, at least we're not them."
First of all, Im a Christian and I am unapologetic in my view on gay marriage-I do not agree with it. I think homosexuality is a sin and I think that gay marriage is nothing more than the secular world trying to take something that is Christian in it founding(marriage) and pervert that aswell. I love gay people, I don't hate them. I just believe that the gay and lesbian movement has distorted the truth and spread misconceptions about Christians and Christianity and it is unfair. I don't understand why being gay is equivalent with being black, or with ethnicity. How so ezperaz? Being gay is a choice, you could easily choose to marry a woman, like the DL men do and be faithful to her. You can't choose being white or black, you were born that way. As a Christian these are my views and I know that some will call me a "bigot" lol, again when did sexual orientation become the equivalent of race? I just feel so through with the mainstream media trying to demonize anybody who does no agree with gay marriage. Look at Carrie Prejean, she was discriminated against because of her stand against gay marriage and there is nothing you can say to make me believe otherwise. I thought that liberals were so open minded but when it comes to anybody who disagreesm with gay marriage we are called "bigots" and other ridiculous names. I don't understand how you could not expect a pastor to include homosexuality with all the other sins being condemned in scripture Monie. I don't think that pastors should preach hate for the people, but why does being gay deserve special treatment, it is on the same magnitude as all the other sins. How can you be a Christian and turn the other cheek on certain things in the scripture? It's not that blacks are more moral than any other race, it is just that we somehow are more intolerant I believe with some of this secular culture. I know many white people who are staunch Christians and believe that homosexuality is wrong and a sin. Why does it have to be called "marriage"? Why is civil union not good enough? I don't understand why they want to take the institution of marriage, which in it's very definition is a holy covenatunion between a man and a woman and their God, and make it something else which is was never intentioned to be. I can't call that equal rights sorry. I believe that gays are equal-um yes because they are HUMANS but I don't think what they are doing should or could ever be considered marriage.
you could easily choose to marry a woman, like the DL men do and be faithful to her.
Thats an oxymoron, you can't be DL and faithful at the same time. The whole meaning of down low means doing something secretly
First of all, Im a Christian and I am unapologetic in my view on gay marriage-I do not agree with it. I think homosexuality is a sin and I think that gay marriage is nothing more than the secular world trying to take something that is Christian in it founding(marriage) and pervert that aswell. I love gay people, I don't hate them. I just believe that the gay and lesbian movement has distorted the truth and spread misconceptions about Christians and Christianity and it is unfair. I don't understand why being gay is equivalent with being black, or with ethnicity. How so ezperaz? Being gay is a choice, you could easily choose to marry a woman, like the DL men do and be faithful to her. You can't choose being white or black, you were born that way. As a Christian these are my views and I know that some will call me a "bigot" lol, again when did sexual orientation become the equivalent of race? I just feel so through with the mainstream media trying to demonize anybody who does no agree with gay marriage. Look at Carrie Prejean, she was discriminated against because of her stand against gay marriage and there is nothing you can say to make me believe otherwise. I thought that liberals were so open minded but when it comes to anybody who disagreesm with gay marriage we are called "bigots" and other ridiculous names. I don't understand how you could not expect a pastor to include homosexuality with all the other sins being condemned in scripture Monie. I don't think that pastors should preach hate for the people, but why does being gay deserve special treatment, it is on the same magnitude as all the other sins. How can you be a Christian and turn the other cheek on certain things in the scripture? It's not that blacks are more moral than any other race, it is just that we somehow are more intolerant I believe with some of this secular culture. I know many white people who are staunch Christians and believe that homosexuality is wrong and a sin. Why does it have to be called "marriage"? Why is civil union not good enough? I don't understand why they want to take the institution of marriage, which in it's very definition is a holy covenant between a man and a woman and their God, and make it something else which is was never intended to be. I can't call that equal rights sorry. I believe that gays are equal-um yes because they are HUMANS but I don't think what they are doing should or could ever be considered marriage
@ politicallyincorrect. I understand that, but they do have the capacity to love a woman, but not be faithful to her? DL men are cheaters. Why do they deserve my sympathy? They cheat on their women spouses with men. I am sorry everybody but homosexuality is a sin and so is adultery and they do them both.
Danielle I have also been repulsed by the way you present people who are ant-gay marriage. I have seen many posts in which you unfairly judge people who do not agree with it. I am not saying that you do not have the right to think the way that you thinl but can you not rebuke those who think differently than you? I don't hate gay people, the reason why i don't agree with gay "marriage" is because it doesn't line up with the scriptures and I am a Christain. so for anybody to call me a bigot implies that I hate the person which I don't, I just don't agree with their lifestyle, the same way I don't agree with a fornicators lifestyle.
@ Dukedrave, I don't understand how everything that is wrong with the black community is automatically the black woman's fault. We aren't the ones rapping about bitches and hoes and being a gangbanger, now are we? I don't understand why EVERYTHING wrong with the poor little black man, the blame is attributed to the black woman's so called flawed mentality. I certainly don't want a thug and I appreciate a man who is cultured in music other than gangster rap. I don't understand why some PEOPLE (not just women) associate creative and intellectual traits with being gay.
@ NAGROM
No where in anything I wrote up top said anything defamatory about Christians at all. I don't even mention religion unless you're counting one reference to "the Bible Belt" another the church music conductor. Neither of which defamed anything. And I don't recall writing anything personally attacking anyone's religion. I'm pretty conscious about what I write and how I write it, but I seriously think you need to read the post again if you thought it unfairly attacked people based on their religion. All I did was describe what it is like for gays and Lesbians who happen to be black.
Now, if you can actually show me where I've said the things you described, please do. But I don't think I've EVER written anything that blanketed all Christians or all black people thinking one way over another in regards to homosexuality. You also brought up gay marriage and I didn't even write about gay marriage in this post. Neither did Ebonie. So it seems you're upset over something that was not even mentioned in this post. I mean, the whole thing is about why people choose to live in the closet rather than being out. Not about gay marriage. The post was about harassment and discrimination and abandonment.
I honestly don't know where you're coming from here.
Danielle, Im sorry if I sounded like I was attacking you in any way. I believe that I just get the overall impression in some of your posts that you do not think very well of those who oppose gay marriage and homosexuality. I do not want to be tied in with people who harrass them and discriminate against them as individuals because i don't. I just don't agree with what they are doing and their agenda to defile marriage.